Stephen Skelton is the author of The Gospel According to the World’s Greatest Superhero.
The new book reveals how the Superman storytellers based Superman on Jesus on purpose. With interest in all things Superman being piqued by the blockbuster Superman Returns, Skelton’s book has been generating a lot of discussion. Recently, Skelton gave us this interview.
1.) You’ve called Superman Returns the Anti-Da Vinci Code. Please tell us what you mean by that.
I think most believers look for ways to start meaningful conversations with non-believers. With the Da Vinci Code, that conversation, by necessity, is negative. We have to say to seekers, “I know you are attracted to the Da Vinci Code, but let me tell you where they get it wrong.”
But with Superman Returns, because the character is a Christ figure, we’re able to start with the positive. Which is, “I know you are attracted to Superman; now let me tell you were they get it right.”
That positive perspective makes it much easier to start and sustain the conversation. Hopefully, that conversation is one that begins with Superman and ends with the Super Man, Jesus Christ.
2.) What is your purpose in writing the book? What are you trying to accomplish?
First and foremost, my purpose in writing the book was to please the Superman fan—whether believer or nonbeliever. And I’d like to think that the first review of the book validates that intention. Neal Bailey over at SupermanHomepage.com wrote that he is an atheist…and he loves the book about Superman as a Christ figure.
Beyond that, I tried to cover thoroughly the case for the parallels between Jesus and Superman. The debate on the comparisons has been verbally waged for decades now. And I wanted to provide a definitive resource on the topic. A written reference that people could cite.
In a way, the book does serve to equip the Christian Superman fan for the debate. But in doing so, it illustrates to all Superman fans the way in which Superman has been shaped into a Christ figure over the life of the character—not to mention the death, burial and resurrection of the character. In fact, that storyline is a prime example of the shaping that has gone on.
3.) What do you think of the controversy that has already arisen? There’s a high-profile Rabbi that has denounced the book sight unseen, saying you have no right to hijack a Jewish creation for “Christian missionizing”. Did you write it to be polarizing?
I felt that the topic could be controversial. But I was not trying to polarize people. This book was written to encourage the dialog between Superman fans—whatever form that dialog may take, whether we are agreeing with one another or disagreeing with one another. To force people to one side of the fence or the other would be counterproductive to the discussion.
Does the book take a stance? It certainly does, and it is a Christian stance. The meaning that the book derives from the parallels between Christ and Superman is Christian meaning. When we ask how this has happened and why it has been so widely accepted, the answer comes from that Christian perspective.
4.) You refer in the book to the Superman canon and the canonical story. And it is from this "official" Superman story that you draw parallels to the Christ story. For the readers, tell us how you define the "official" Superman story.
I wouldn’t say I defined it so much as the public did. I simply looked at what was generally accepted as the Superman story and traced those story elements back to their sources.
A lot of the comic book stuff falls out of that equation. For example, in the popular canon, Supes and Lois are not married. I think the reason this has happened is because of the numbers: hundreds of thousands of people read the comic books and tens of millions of people see the movies. That’s why today, I believe Superman is much more of a movie character than a comic book character. When you ask people to picture Superman, more of them think of Christopher Reeve than a Curt Swan illustration.
Even given that, the canon I cite in the book includes early Siegel and Shuster stories, the Superman radio show, the Max Fleischer short films, the first Superman novel, the George Reeves Superman TV show, Superman: The Movie and Superman II, the Man of Steel comic book mini-series, the Death of Superman comic book storyline, Smallville and Superman Returns.
5.) Isn't Superman's story, the hero's story, a story that has been around since ancient times? So that Superman's story is not solely the Christ story?
In broad strokes, that “official” Superman story goes something like this: From above a heavenly father sends his only son to save the Earth. The father’s name is God (“El”) and the son’s name is God (“El”). On Earth, he is raised by two adoptive parents who originally had the names Mary and Joseph. As a young adult, he will journey into the wilderness. There, he will commune with his father. He will emerge ready for his mission at age thirty. He will fight for truth and justice. Eventually, in the course of his mission, he will die, be buried and resurrect. Next he will ascend into the heavens. Later he will return.
In the specifics of the Superman story, point by point, I know of no other hero’s story that so closely resembles the Superman story than the Christ story.
6.) Well then, can Superman be seen as other religious figures? Moses? Buddha? Krishna? Hercules?
Absolutely he can. Apart from his story, the moral character of Superman is applicable to a wide range of figures.
In general, being able to read the symbolism of the Superman story in different ways is one of the main appeals of the story. It would be less exciting if it were more explicit because it would be too obvious.
Also, if Superman could ONLY be seen as a Christ figure, then he would ONLY appeal to the followers of Christ. But if Superman can be seen as a Christ figure or a Moses figure or a Krishna figure or a Hercules figure, then he will appeal to many more people.
However, having said that, I believe the match of Superman to other figures is not as cohesive as the match of Superman to Christ. There are matches on the points of morality, as there are in most major religions. So you can say, with some qualifiers, that the character of Superman is like the character of Moses or Buddha, etc. The parallels become more explicitly Christian when you start comparing the events of their stories, their mythos.
Moses comes the closest. However, Moses is sent by his mother, not father. And he is not the only son, as Aaron would be quick to point out. And he does not experience a death, burial and resurrection as Christ and Superman both do. So some of the major iconic story elements are found lacking even in that comparison.
In a way, this work throws down the gauntlet. If there is equal or greater evidence of Superman as a parallel to any figure other than Christ, write a book about it. That book would become an invaluable resource to the debate, the ongoing dialog.
7.) How much of what you write about in the book is your opinion and how much is "fact"?
Certainly I do offer my opinion based on the facts, my interpretation of how, given the events of the Superman story, the parallels can be drawn to the Christ story. And I also give great weight to the idea of the truth being paralleled, which I define as the Christian truth, that the Christ story is the true story.
But I also put a lot of stock in the comments of the Superman storytellers themselves. I’m talking about the on-the-record statements of people like Tom Mankiewicz, the writer of Superman: The Movie, who said “The metaphor was clearly there when Jor-El sends Superman to Earth with God sending Christ to save humanity.”
Or David Nutter, director of the Smallville pilot, who said, “I thought there were a lot of metaphors between Clark and Jesus actually. And I tried to throw in as many as I could.”
Or Bryan Singer, director of Superman Returns who said, “Superman is the Jesus Christ of superheroes.” And that Superman Returns is “a story about what happens when Messiahs come back…”
Interestingly enough, it is the statements of the Superman storytellers themselves that impress both believers and non-believers the most.
It is worth considering that, in my research into the Superman storytellers talking about their influences, the religious influence cited most consistently, and nearly exclusively, is Christ.
8.) In the book, you cite the intentional fallacy as a false idea. You use the intentional fallacy to say that the intentions of the creators of Superman are not as important as the truth that the story contains. Please explain.
The intentional fallacy says that if the creator did not intend it, it is not valid.
To illustrate how this is false logic, in the book I use the everyday example of a love song that reminds you of a loved one. Between the lines, you can read that the “love song” is a stand-in for the Superman story and the “loved one” is a stand-in for Christ.
So if the intentional fallacy says that because the creator did not intend it, it is not valid, then you are wrong to think that the love song reminds you of your loved one. The creator did not know your loved one and therefore could not have intended his love song to remind you of him or her.
What the book holds as more important than the intentional fallacy is the truth. Which again, I define as the truth of God, the truth of Jesus Christ. I suggest that, more important than the intention of the author, is the intention of God. So that when a Superman storyteller does NOT recognize Christ parallels, I still hold the parallels as true. And, on the other hand, when a Superman storyteller does recognize Christ parallels, I again hold the parallels to be true. The only difference is that the latter Superman storyteller acknowledges the story from which he draws his inspiration.
9.) Outside of the intentional fallacy, another way you support your thesis is to indicate that the Superman we know today is not necessarily the Superman that Siegel and Shuster created. A lot of Superman fans revere S and S. Explain a bit more.
When you say a lot of Superman fans revere Siegel and Shuster, you’re talking about me. One of the first things I say on the subject of Siegel and Shuster is that they well-deserve their created by credit. Without them, there would be no Superman, period.
But by the same token, we should acknowledge the contribution of other writers to Superman over the past 70 years. In the book, I use the example of the origin story. The first time Siegel and Shuster told the tale in a newspaper comic strip, it was only a handful of panels before their version had gone from Krypton to Earth and the super-child had grown to a Superman, ready for his first super adventure. However, the full origin story came together over several years from multiple sources, including Superman: The Movie.
In fact, although it may seem a bit blasphemous, to make the point, I’ve seen it said that two guys gave Superman to the world—and those two guys were Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewicz. Count Christopher Reeve as well, if you want to make it a trinity. It is the movie that has been seen by hundreds of millions of people world wide who would not know the origin story of Superman otherwise.
10.) What do you say to Christians who say this is a bad idea: that this basically says, Jesus is not interesting enough so let's bring in Superman?
I had an interesting experience with that. One critic was commenting on what is happening in the U.K. where their religious education leaders are beginning to use Superman to teach students about Gospel concepts. And the critic said this is a bad idea because it says Jesus is not interesting enough so let’s bring in Superman.
And I kind of wrestled with that. It bothered me. But I couldn’t articulate my counter point. Y’know, was this a flaw in my efforts with the book?
So a few days later, I was doing an interview with a newspaper and the reporter asked me what the critics were saying. And with some hesitation, because I didn’t have a rebuttal, I said that one critic said this is a bad idea because it says Jesus is not interesting enough so let’s bring in Superman.
And there was this long pause on the other end. And then the reporter said, Huh, strikes me it’s the other way around. I said, What do you mean? He said, Seems to me like after Superman was created back in the 1930s, we go with that version for about forty years until it’s time to do the big Hollywood movie that will introduce Superman to the world. And when the time came to write that story, the movie makers said, Superman is not interesting enough, so let’s bring in Jesus. And I said, D’oh! That should be in there! Where were you when I was writing the book?!
So in a way, that Christian complaint reveals about the complainer where he places his focus. The book is not using Jesus to reflect the truth of the fictional Superman; the book is using the fictional Superman to reflect the truth of Christ.
11.) What do you say to a-religious people, who say I just don't see it?
I have found that some people don’t see it because they are not familiar with the story—of either Superman or Christ. They simply don’t understand why it is significant for Jor-El to say, as he does in the Superman Returns teaser trailer, “For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you—my only son.” They don’t understand who “the only son” is and where the biblical influence comes from for many, many story elements like that.
But, the bright side to that is what we’ve been talking about all along—the dialog. To return to the way in which the book can encourage open lines of communication, the believer and the non-believer can find common ground in their enthusiasm for Superman, and then, naturally, find they have other things in common as well. So that we see each other as less of the other and more of a friend.
That is the kind of respect for fellow man that both Jesus and Superman would approve of.
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